I found this most excellent article on Greta Christina’s blog: http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2010/01/immorality-of-heaven.html
In a nutshell, it asks the question: how can heaven be heaven if we know our loved ones are in hell? There’s a lot of supposition and guesswork in there – hell, it’s ALL guesswork when it comes to the supposed afterlife, but it’s a piece designed to make you think, and it did that for me.
February 19th, 2010 at 01:09
I think there are 2 problems with this argument. The first is the assumption that the bible ever mentions that heaven is “perfect” as opposed to “wicked cool”. Though I get the logic behind saying that it’s perfect (since Xtians say that their god is perfect).
the second flaw is the idea that you can’t enjoy heaven if your loved ones are in hell. In the micro: Disneyland is still enjoyable even if my sister is having a terrible day. Sure, I might occasionally be sad when i think about her suffering, but when I’m not thinking about it, i’m enjoying space mountain (though heaven better have some better rides than space mountain).
Also, I think this argument is based on the idea that people are cast into hell against their will, which is not really accurate. It’s more about choosing hell. People (in theory) choose to commit terrible acts, choose to make themselves into bad people, and in the end they are the ones that have chosen to go to hell. A nun that I actually like used to compare it to someone who spends their whole life in dark places. If they, then, see two paths; one light and one dark; they are far more likely to take the dark path of their own free will, because they don’t feel comfortable in the light.
February 19th, 2010 at 07:55
You’re right about point 1; the bible never explicitly says heaven is a perfect place, although it comes damned close.
But I’d beg to differ on your second point. To take it to the visceral; Would you still be enjoying space mountain if you knew your sister was being raped? Would you prefer not to know she was being raped, or would you prefer her not to be raped at all?
What would that say about the entity preventing knowledge of the rape?
The argument wasn’t really about the people cast into hell, whether by their own choice or not; it was more about the nature of heaven and the question “How can it be paradise when you know your loved ones are in agony?”
The short answer (for me) is that it can’t: paradise is as much internal (your experience) as it is external (the surroundings).
February 24th, 2010 at 13:48
I take your point, but think of it as a matter of scale. Sure, my sister having a bad day isn’t as bad as hell, of course, but my extension I hope that Christians believe that Heaven is better than Disney.
I’m not defending their point of view, but I’m not sure it’s innately logical.
Now, the idea that an all loving god can allow people to go to hell IS irrational and makes no sense, but I credit humans with enough ego to ignore the pain of others if they are enjoying themselves.
(though, ironically, I’m sure that the idea that their argument only makes sense if you accept that humans are selfish, blind, and short sighted would not go over well with Christians either).
February 26th, 2010 at 11:26
So increase the scale… is there any place where you could be happy while at the same time knowing that your sister was being raped, or mutilated?
For me, the answer’s simple: there’s not. I don’t care where I was, my first (and last, and only) reaction upon learning of this would be to find a way out so I could go to her aid.